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Jeanne, the upset anti-brick but with a full purse (rant warning)
Some things on hunts really irritate me and put me in a bad mood and since no one else ever seems to notice or get bothered I am the only one who is upset. I try to ask for a change but it's not so easy when no one sees that there could be a better way or don't think they did anything wrong in the first place. I don't want to point this out on the hunt because the focus needs to be on the hunt and I don't want to have another pointless discussion where nothing changes in the end because clearly nothing will change no matter how many times I say the same things over and over again.
Here we are hitting something and then something new comes along and while the first something is yellow everyone leaves to hit the second something while I don't because I like killing one before moving on to the other. The first something hits me because I AM NOT A BRICK and I fall. I say "Hey, why did you do something so stupid?" and I get the answer of no one was hitting the first thing which is interesting because if no one was hitting it why was it yellow? I understand this "tagging everything on the screen" mentality is so that you don't miss out on tags but if everyone hits the first something and then moves on to the second something then no one will miss out on tags. I hope you understand why this behavior would put me in a bad mood.
Furthermore, if you see a person (me) waiting to pull someone so they can hit could you just not swing for 10 seconds so that person (me) can hit as well? Sure that person (me) could just pull a random person to get the tag but that random person might not have gotten their tag and doing so would be very rude. This only happened a few times today but it's still annoying when it does.
Another thing I've never understood. Something shows up and the fighters rush towards it, which is normal, but the healers do as well. Why is this? Shouldn't healers let the fighters rush in first and then they can approach so they are behind the fighters? Do you know how aggrivating it is to have to run around the healers as they are running towards the thing and then having to pull them out of the way to get a hit in? Plus, even though I AM NOT A BRICK, I can avoid/withstand more blows then healers and I'm pretty sure I can do more damage to the thing than the healers and it's more important that they stay healthy so why would healers let themselves get hit needlessly? I've never understood this behavior.
Also, if you say you're in a rush then why stop to hit everything that moves in the snell before moving on? Just move on to the next snell. It's ok to leave stuff behind if you're in a rush to leave because that's the point of rushing, isn't it? After all, if you have to leave an area or get to an area fast then you shouldn't take the time and hit everything that's in your way even if they are kills/vanquishes and have a lot of coins on them.
Here we are hitting something and then something new comes along and while the first something is yellow everyone leaves to hit the second something while I don't because I like killing one before moving on to the other. The first something hits me because I AM NOT A BRICK and I fall. I say "Hey, why did you do something so stupid?" and I get the answer of no one was hitting the first thing which is interesting because if no one was hitting it why was it yellow? I understand this "tagging everything on the screen" mentality is so that you don't miss out on tags but if everyone hits the first something and then moves on to the second something then no one will miss out on tags. I hope you understand why this behavior would put me in a bad mood.
Furthermore, if you see a person (me) waiting to pull someone so they can hit could you just not swing for 10 seconds so that person (me) can hit as well? Sure that person (me) could just pull a random person to get the tag but that random person might not have gotten their tag and doing so would be very rude. This only happened a few times today but it's still annoying when it does.
Another thing I've never understood. Something shows up and the fighters rush towards it, which is normal, but the healers do as well. Why is this? Shouldn't healers let the fighters rush in first and then they can approach so they are behind the fighters? Do you know how aggrivating it is to have to run around the healers as they are running towards the thing and then having to pull them out of the way to get a hit in? Plus, even though I AM NOT A BRICK, I can avoid/withstand more blows then healers and I'm pretty sure I can do more damage to the thing than the healers and it's more important that they stay healthy so why would healers let themselves get hit needlessly? I've never understood this behavior.
Also, if you say you're in a rush then why stop to hit everything that moves in the snell before moving on? Just move on to the next snell. It's ok to leave stuff behind if you're in a rush to leave because that's the point of rushing, isn't it? After all, if you have to leave an area or get to an area fast then you shouldn't take the time and hit everything that's in your way even if they are kills/vanquishes and have a lot of coins on them.
(Anonymous)
You are an exception among fighters, being very watchful and careful -- sometimes to an excess.
I completely agree that unless it's overly safe, creatures should be hunted down one by one. But most fighters are so confident in their defense, health and running that they will keep on fluttering from one beast to another, or try dead on to solo in a narrow passage instead of bringing to group, etc. For me a really harmless foe is a dead one, as simple as that. And we should all know by now that group efforts are the most efficient. But what do you know, some fighters are very slow learners :/
About healers running to beasts… while it's true that fighters would avoid blows more, I disagree about the withstanding part. Most healers have more health (Higgrus) than fighters (Hista) of similar levels. And then we have self-heal, and spirit which makes us healed faster. That's why we are often used as damage rod, or for running large numbers.
I can understand how frustrating it is for a fighter to see a healer get hit repetively, still.
The second reason healers would run to a beast is to trap it down, so that it's killed faster in the Surround & Pound strategy discussed above. I know that in case of evading high-troilus critters like Beetles or Lyfes (or damaging ones like Valley Cougars) I will run in to trap when I get the opportunity. It's then up to fighters to pull or let me fall, but better keep the thing trapped is what I say!
If the behavior is unneccessary or annoying, just remind us during or before hunt!
--
Sor
Yep, but I’d rather have people say “We didn’t need to retreat to heal.” after a tough battle than “Who should we toggle to form a rescue?”
For me a really harmless foe is a dead one, as simple as that. And we should all know by now that group efforts are the most efficient. But what do you know, some fighters are very slow learners :/
I think you overlooked the assumption many fighters make in that it’s okay to leave a beast when it’s at yellow or red because someone else will make the killing blow. Most of the time that does work out well but when all of the fighters leave at the same time or when the beast can’t be taken down or bricked by those fighters who didn’t leave is when the problems start. In the example I was thinking off on the Valley hunt, I was facing a Valley Panther or Cougar which I can’t brick and I can just barely hit reliably so when everyone left I was in big trouble.
About healers running to beasts… while it's true that fighters would avoid blows more, I disagree about the withstanding part.
If Histia is the same as Higgrus then I have a bit over 200 Histia myself and I know most 5th circle fighters and above have between 250 and 300 Histia. What do you think the most common range of Higgrus is? I don’t think it’s above this range so I think fighters and healers have similar levels of health at similar levels, although I could be wrong.
The self-heal is important but unless a healer has trained to have a good self-heal, I wouldn’t say that it’s a definite life-saver. Since Healers can’t brick the tough beasts, they often can’t out heal the damage that’s being done to them.
Most 4th circle fighters and above have trained with Rodnus which I believe has the same Rodnus training as in 100 trainings with Spirtus. So unless the healer has more than 100 Spirtus, I have the same amount of Rodnus they do if not more so I am healed just as fast if not faster.
The second reason healers would run to a beast is to trap it down, so that it's killed faster in the Surround & Pound strategy discussed above. I know that in case of evading high-troilus critters like Beetles or Lyfes (or damaging ones like Valley Cougars) I will run in to trap when I get the opportunity. It's then up to fighters to pull or let me fall, but better keep the thing trapped is what I say!
If there were 3 fighters and 3 healers fighting in the opening snell of the Valley then I would probably say that having the healers help the fighters in the Surround & Pound strategy is a good one. Hardly anyone bricks Beetles and with so few fighters it’s important to keep them trapped. If the same group was fighting Lyfelidaes or Valley Cougars, I would rather the healers stay out of the way since many fighters can brick to some degree these beasts and so the healers should use their health to heal the fighters. In addition, it’s easier to trap Lyfelidaes and Valley Cougars so the fighters should take on that role.
In the Valley hunt I’m referring to, there were so many fighters and so many healers that it was difficult to reach the beast through so many people running in the same direction at the same time. Once everyone got within striking distance of the beast, all of the healers had to be pulled that made it ahead of the fighters. Or, in my case, by the time I got past all of the healers and fighters that were running towards the beast and then past all of the healers who were standing just a bit apart from the fighters to get in a position to pull someone to tag the beast, the beast died and I got nothing.
If the behavior is unneccessary or annoying, just remind us during or before hunt!
Why waste my time? If I asked people to change their behavior I’d either get ignored or people would say that they won’t do it or they’d say they won’t do it but do it anyway because it’s such an ingrained habit they do it without thinking about it. I’ve given up trying to have people change their behavior for what I think is the better. All I can do is seethe in silence and rant about it on my journal.
I think you would be interested in the Open Hands method of hunting. It is based around a 'centre of gravity'. A sort of circle effect, where the healers are in the centre, able to heal any fighter who comes near, surrounded by fighters who protect the healers from harm, with the brick out in front to hold the creatures. The fighters leave the COG one at a time to tag, when they have all tagged, the brick kills the monster. All the fighters (except the brick) take turns (in alphabetical order) to lure creatures onto the brick. The fighters as individuals share all the healers, so that they can just go to the nearest one to be healed. The brick is backpacked by the strongest healer, and it is the job of the weakest healer to keep the strongest one well, so that they do not have to constantly self-heal. It requires a good deal of initial organisation, and each member of the group needs to be clear on their role. But when that is done, it works extremely well.
Unfortunately, I don't think the SDC is coordinated enough to adopt your strategy for our own.
Fighting efficiently
Anyway, fighting in an efficient and coordinated way is very hard to achieve. Boris, OH leader, has worked for _years_ for people to behave correctly in battle. And i mean ooc years.
You _have_ to yell at people when they don't obey orders. You have to take the risk of people being unhappy with you. Hunting like this is not for everybody. Some people think "I have a lot of ranks, I don't need to be careful". Or they just to have fun and don't want to simply obey orders like in the Army. Which is their right, it's a game, everyone should get their fun the most appropriate way for themselves. Only, not on my hunts, thank you ;-)
It's rewarding in the end, because you see everyone working like a team.
--Martin
Re: Fighting efficiently
(Anonymous)